HBO’s Hacks tells of the budding collaboration between two unlikely individuals – Las Vegas resident stand-up Deborah (Jean Smart) and down-on-her-luck millennial Ava (Hannah Einbinder) – as they partner up to support each other’s careers. They are polar opposites who, over the course of an utterly brilliant season of television, grow, and learn, and discover things about themselves and each other.
Hacks is one of those rare shows about comedy that’s actually funny. The direction is stellar. The writing is fantastic. But it’s the electric chemistry between its two leads that elevate the series to greatness.
In this Goggler exclusive, we sat down with both Jean Smart and Hannah Einbinder for a conversation about both their characters and how much of themselves they brought to these roles.
Umapagan Ampikaipakan: Jean, before I get to it, I have a message for you from my wife. I was watching Hacks with her and with every episode she would say out loud, and I quote: “She is gold. I want to be her. I want to grow up to be someone who gives no fucks.” Pardon my French. She absolutely loves you.
Jean Smart: Thank you. Thank you so much.
UA: But my first question is about that. As in, how much of you did you channel into this character? How much of you is in Deborah? And how much did you draw from other characters you’ve played before? I got a little bit of Lana from Frasier…
JS: It’s funny because my sense of humor is is probably more outgoing and bawdier than in my actual soul. I think I care way too much about what people think. So I do give up often. But there is something about Deborah’s sense of humor. I seem to be drawn to characters who use humor to deflect people, and to deflect discomfort and pain. And maybe that is a part of me as well. But I hope I’m a lot nicer than Deborah is. Great question. And tell your wife, thank you.
UA: Hannah, this next one’s for you. Ava was an interesting character in that she is an incredibly annoying and lovable asshole…
Hannah Einbinder: Tell us how you really feel… *laughs*
UA: … and I wanted to know how you got into that mindset because I’m watching the show and screaming at the screen whenever you’re having a confrontation with Deborah. It was great. So how did you channel that?
HE: Oh my God. Every time either of us had to be like, mean, or get into a fight, or any of that, as soon as they yell “cut” we’d be like, “I’m sorry.” You know, I have to say, like Jean said, I am so worried about what people think. And I am such a people pleaser. I am a comedian, so I am desperate for external validation…
JS: *laughs*
HE: … so that’s a part of it. And so it was like a lovely vacation to step inside someone who had no concept of how her honesty, for her dishonesty, affects others. It was so nice. For 12 hours I get to not give a fuck. So I liked it. And you know, she’s a character. I’m from Los Angeles, and I came up in the L.A. comedy scene, and Ava is like a lot of people I know. So it was very easy to step into her vibe.
JS: Getting to abuse Hanna Einbinder every day and getting paid to do it was an incredible delight…
HE: And usually she does it for free, so…
JS: But I mean, kind of the reverse of what Hannah said, I got to step into a character who is fully aware of how much she frightens people and intimidates people. And who uses that when she needs to. The thing I like about the way they wrote Deborah’s character was that they didn’t make her just a sort of two-dimensional diva who was dismissive and rude of everybody, and demanding, and temperamental. She has enormous respect for the people who work around her and work for her. She knows what it takes to succeed, and anybody who works hard has her respect. Unless she’s in a bad mood.
HE: Run for cover!
UA: And I think that’s a testament to your performance because from the first moment we see you in Hacks, we immediately know that this is a woman who’s seen some shit, and been through some stuff, and we get that right away. No exposition required.
UA: Before I let you go Jean, I wanted to ask you about the roles you’ve been getting these last few years. There have been lots of conversations in Hollywood about there being enough parts for women at every stage of their life and career, and it feels like you’ve had so many of them over the years. From Frasier, to the first lady that everyone hates in 24, to being on three of the best TV shows of the last three years in Watchmen, Mare of Easttown, and now Hacks. It’s been astounding.
JS: I don’t know. I mean, there’s a part of me that wishes they’d come along 20 years ago when I feel like I could have taken more advantage of it, but I’m very grateful. Obviously, there’s a lot more opportunity for everybody right now because, my God, when I came to L.A., there were three networks and now there’s… how many? Fifty? One of the nice things about that – and not all actors would agree with me – but you can actually be a very, very successful working actor, making a good living right now, doing really quality stuff, and still be completely anonymous. In the old days, if you were on a hit show, that’s it, like it or not, your anonymity was gone. You were kind of well known.
I think it’s wonderful. I mean, I don’t watch much of anything – I’m terrible – but there are shows that are considered massive, massive hits. Hugely successful. But some of them I’ve never seen and some I’ve never even heard of.
So that’s good. Because there’s a lot of work, but I think they exist in these pockets of fame, right?
UA: Oh, for sure. Like there will be shows that 15-year-olds in the Philippines really love or shows that have a huge fan base among 40-year-olds in Malaysia.
JS: Yes. Yes. And you know, I’ve just been truly, truly blessed with amazing, amazing parts. I mean, like Watchmen, I didn’t know anything about the graphic novel. And I have to thank Sigourney Weaver for turning the part down. So that’s how that happened.
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